Retrieving map data from KF games

[Guyra]

Would it be possible to retrieve map data from the official KF games? Preferrably so one could open them in common 3D modeling software.

[dmpdesign]

Map data meaning the 3d models used to construct the individual map pieces?

Thats a good question, I dont recall that I ever saw any in the rips I did of KF2 or 3, but maybe I just wasnt looking in the right place.

My guess is the map modelling is probably in a format that doesnt support ripping but I could be wrong. ‎  John would likely know ;)

[Guyra]

Yes, that's what I'm thinking of. It would be really cool to use for making a game that takes place in the same area, or f.ex. a remake.

Detailed maps would be a second best, I guess. :)

[HwitVlf]

Like Todd says, I've never seen a complete world map model in a standard 3D format on a KF game disk nor anything like SoM's map Piece tiles. There are some flat tiles which the KF engine may build into the world map- not sure. ‎  The map textures are easy enough to get at.

I think it would be fairly easy to build a remake using the default SoM map Pieces. If you look at the KF(US) maps in the official KF2(US) strategy guide, you can see the exact dimensions of the maps and how their setup is identical to what SoM uses. I actually think those maps were made from screenshots of the KF developers tool. You can even see the tile coordinates along the borders just like SoM uses.

[Verdite]

While i think it would be a good idea, i also think that remaking a kf game without upgrading the resolution would be a waste. KF wasnt exactly well recieved, and if it was to be re-released in a remake it would have to be presentable enough for modern gamers to appreciate. Its a good idea though :)

[dmpdesign]

I contemplated a KF remake before, but there are just some stepping stones that are going to be difficult if not impossible to muster.

KF2 was really quite a bit more involved than KF1.

Things off the top of my head that SOM just cant do or doesnt do well that KF2 had over KF1 -

#1 falling damage, currently we dont have a way to do universal falling damage, i know some scenarios were thrown around to create events for it locally, but to get it right on all maps and areas that have drop offs (which in KF2 was a ton of places) would just be impossible.

#2 bows and arbalests - we have no animation or working weapon to reproduce this feature. ‎  it was actually a really cool element in the game.
#3 proper flying creatures - SOM does support enemy flight but the enemies do not dynamically move around in the y direction. ‎  Maybe a minor thing, but still something we cant pull off that I am aware of.

#4 multi-tiered areas...I know there are several map sets floating around that attempt to produce a multi-tiered landscape, but really SOM just isnt built for stacking map levels on top of each other. ‎  the amount of tricks needed to keep the player from being attacked from below or looting items etc from a floor above or below them is just impossible to reproduce some of the areas KF2 had. ‎  Consider all those huge caverns in the big mine, which brings me to my next thing.

#5 - the mine cart. ‎  I have an area in DD (for those of you who played through it) where I have a simple mine cart event that transports the player from one end of a chasm to another by 'pushing' the player with invisible objects. ‎  It was not an easy thing to do and believe me the end result was quite inferior to KF2's big mine area. ‎  I do believe this one would be rather impossible to code to move a player around an area in a minecart without wanting to kill yourself trying to do it.

#6 - ambient sounds and echoing. ‎  yes we can do ambient noise cheating by putting invisible npcs/enemies in certain spots, but think about how the audio of KF2 really affected the gameplay. ‎  you may not realize it but if you go back and play, you can hear little creaks and scratching, mining, insects and ghosts wandering in the distance, echoing eerily in the halls of KF2. ‎  It may not seem like much, but it was a marvel of sound use for its time, and even for today. ‎  I think they did such a great job setting mood with their ambient noises that it single handedly lead from software to abandon music entirely for shadow tower, demons and dark souls so that they could focus on setting the eerie and scary tones of their sound effects.

#7 - in game changes based on equipment you are wearing. ‎  You couldnt for example modify the player to have the effect of groundal (KF3) if they equip the entire suit, or the aquarion boots. ‎  We also cant replicate the blood crown from KF3 where you had a constant find hidden room buff at the cost of health loss depending on whether or not the item was equipped.

I really dont think a replica of the original would be worth someone's time to try to update considering the only main benefit would be a visual improvement...from a gameplay standpoint SOM just is not up to par with the control systems and environments that KF2 had in place since its really more or less a KF1 making tool (amazingly enough).

[HwitVlf]

I think a Melenat revisited game would be better that a straight remake. I really enjoyed the recognizable areas from Dark Destiny. Todd, did you use the guide's maps for your remade areas?

[Guyra]

I'm playing a bit with game development outside of SoM, which is why I mentioned remake. But a "revisited" variant would also be cool. ^^

[HwitVlf]

What development environment are you playing with? I've looked around quite a bit and the closest thing I could find that could pull of KF like games was GameStudio, but I think it would require a lot more work to make a game than a SoM game does. Of course, you wouldn't have SoM's limitations either.

[Guyra]

I've been programming in Dark Basic Pro for some years now, but I'm sick and tired of it's crappy capabilities and effectiveness, and huge amount of bugs( ), so I've gone back to learning C++ again. :)