Greetings Friends

[Holy_Diver]

Hello fellow KF and Moonlight-lunatics...

Firstly, in lieu of a general discussion/introduction board (every forum needs at least one) I am staking my claim to this board for now!!

Ok, nice to meet everyone. I would've signed on a some days ago, but it took me a little while to come up with a clever signin name... like a tattoo they tend to stick with you.

John (aka weissvulf) introduced me to SoM (and this website) not long ago. Well actually I found his website/email via kings-field.neocities.org, which I had pursued before, but before it was available there. I'd heard of his obtaining SoM before whilst on my own quests to do so. I'd given up for a while, but playing KF1 thanks to the Japanese PSN I was inspired to try again, and this time with sweet success!

I have played some Japanese SoM games available for download around the internet, but so far all these productions, though charming in their own way, otherwise pale in comparison to the relative masterpieces available thanks to your SoM website here. Kudos to the authors!

I've even momentarily laid down my PS3 KF1 jaunts in favor of the two finished games already available for download here. I think it's awesome that everyone strives to put the musical score first. I've always thought there was something different and haunting about KF music which I've ever been unable to truly categorize into a particular genre of sound, though I am familiar with many.

(However much the ever immersion loving game designer in me is willingly partial to the bgm-less environs of Shadow Tower)

I'm speaking of (let me look up the titles) "Diadem of Maunstraut" and "Trismegistus" of course. And I look forward to "Dark Destiny" upon initial release. Btw, if there are any records of Japanese user created SoM games somewhere, I would very much like to know. If not it would be a worthwhile endeavor I think to seek them out and save copies for safe keeping.

On a more personal note. I must admit I've never been very aware of any significant KF community, and even the stature of these halls I think dwarf attendance here. And I've always been one to loath corporate sponsored forums (eg. Agetec/Gamefaqs) and though I've been known to resort to Gamefaqs of last resort, I've never noticed more than a few dwindling posts in any KF related forums I've ever visited. And if the internet is any indicator KF appears even less popular in Japan... especially in terms of online content generated by players. So as you can imagine I probably have a lot of sleeping KF enthusiasm starving to express itself. For now though I will let sleeping dogs lie... if for only the sake of this thread's sanity

Thanks again everyone in keeping the KF flame burning~

PS: I will carry my dagger with conviction of purpose...

[dmpdesign]

Glad to have you, thanks for coming over.

Like you said, the KF 'community' is relatively spread out and or hard to find. This site is relatively new, and most of the fans have not found their way here yet (hopefully they come!)

Like yourself, I found a door to open with SOM via KF.com, Tom Eversole and John. Thanks to them I had the encouragement (seeing Diadem in action really pushed me) to try to make my own game. Hopefully dark destiny will be faithful to what youre expecting when I am done. It has been in progress since I think september and it is finally starting to come to a close soon.

As far as music is concerned, Tom's games have his own music that he made with some pretty damn good artistic talent. I wouldnt expect most SOM games to have the same musical quality his games do as he is a pro at composing. Thankfully he and a few others have lent their helping hands to my project, else my game would never have had music..

Anyways, again, welcome, and hopefully we can eventually get enough folks here to make the board worth visiting more often.

[Holy_Diver]

I realize we are not all so well musically endowed. I hope as long as such quality productions come about, the SoM community musicians will help the rest of the talent to continue to keep the bar high.

Perhaps musicians can help adapt scores to already made games, and once proven collaborations can be had (deciding on a score in advance could possibly even be best)

Btw, how much of Melanat will "Dark Destiny" re-imagine? Will you try to keep to the layout of KF2 (my fav KF btw) or will you be embellishing it somewhat to your own liking? Either way, I think it would be very awesome to do everything possible to remake KF2 and KF3 with SoM. KF3 always felt very square on the PS1. It would be nice to see it's outdoor (and sometimes indoor) settings done with a more organic feel (though literal translations might also be interesting as well)

...

It is not hard at all to get textures out of PS1 games. But the models are pretty much impossible to get at unless you can find their data somewhere. That is there is no 3D hardware on the PS1. Usually level data is easier to find, as it is less likely to be embedded in the executable. The PS2 has a pseudo-3D depth buffer, but it is still a very 2D pipeline. It might be possible to artistically interpret the depth coordinates as a depth projection via an emulator module, but that won't likely yield a perfect replica. Still there would be nothing wrong with just redoing everything. The PS1 games are actually fairly simple in technical terms. And I wouldn't mind seeing a KF4 remake in a more traditional PS1 gen style.

[dmpdesign]

Wow, thats a mouthful of stuff there.

Well, i dont know how much experience, if any, youve had with SOM yet..it is a great program for PS1 style king's field games, but it definately has quite a few limitations.

There are literally things done in KF2 (as you refer to what most US folks know as KF1) and 3 that SOM can't do at all. The engine is not completely faithful to the originals, but its not far off either.

Some of the things that are quite different are:

-You can't create falling damage
-The original map set that comes with SOM does NOT support multi-tiered mapping at all. Thankfully some of the fans have made their own custom map sets that do this.
-There is a limit of I believe 1024 usable map tiles, so anything beyond that and youre out of luck.
-We haven't figured out (yet if ever) how to create custom animated models like NPCs and Enemies which leaves us with only the monsters etc that came with the set.
-Some of the scripts available in the KF series won't work or can't be perfectly duplicated with the SOM event engine, for example equipping the aquarion boots let you walk on water (equippable items only have a set number of variables you can choose from for their effect, and modifying the game like walking on water or over traps isnt one of them).
-There are no bows and arrows. There is strictly stab, poke, slash and two handed slash type weapons.
-The sky creation is pretty weak, you are limited to just a few animations (they can be customized but are based on a low res texture and can't be elaborate).

I am sure there are more things, but you get the point.

There are benefits to SOm though..a few of them are:

-Customized objects, items, map pieces etc are not horribly difficult to create and they are easily supported by the engine.
-The engine supports a great amount of map space, object placement, and depending on the computer you make the game on, you could likely add alot more stuff to make it more detailed than a playstation 1 could handle. The graphics lie somewhere above the playstation specs but definately far below what the PS2 could handle.
-I have been tinkering with some things and yes, you can even add custom sound bytes too ( I plan on trying to add harvine's flute sound in my game )
-The design of the engine is purely KF, the turn speed, the dark atmosphere and lighting style it employs, the text etc is all very familiar.
--------------------
Ok with that said, some other things.

It is definately my goal to make this site a collaborative work in progress for all those who want to have an SOM community. We already have some really talented folks (thankfully) working on games, creating custom models, writing music and just adding their ideas. Working together we are producing new stuff that will hopefully push the limits of the SOM engine, and satisfy fans of the series for a long time coming.

The best thing any fan can do is pour out their ideas or their talents here so that the rest can benefit from your perspective, talents and time. The worst thing a fan can do, and believe me there are many who do this, is ask for a copy of SOM, get ahold of one and give it about 10 mins of effort before they give up. Using SOM is certainly not easy to begin with, and maybe its not for everyone...but there is more to a game than the programming. Folks could help with ideas, attract more people to come to contribute, play-test beta games, write music, create models, create a story etc. I encourage you and anyone who comes to not give up if SOM is not for them.

Last fall when I first discovered SOM, Tom, John and Martin gave me a chance and spent a large amount of time teaching me how to program SOM, how to make custom weapons, custom map pieces, where to improve my map design etc. DD will be far from perfect, but its hundreds of times better than it would have been if they didn't help me. So I want to return the favor and help anyone who wants to give SOM a try.

To answer your questions regarding DD and its similarity to KF 1(2 or whatever the hell you want to call it hehe) is that it will be very close in some areas. You should definately recognize a few places, and the locations of the maps in relation to each other will be almost identical. In other words, the dragon fountain will be near the main base, the shore will be by the waterfall on the west side, the colisseum will be by the dragon warrior shrine etc. The individual maps will not be the same as KF1, but like I said before, they will be similar.

KF1 is also my favorite game (when I say KF1 I am referring to U.S. #1 with alexander and guyra) and I am trying very hard to do it justice...but at the same time I dont want it to be the same adventure. Of the 19 maps, 7 areas will be completely new, and will expand your exploration to the heights and depths of the island like never before. You will climb the highest mountain on Melanat, and you will submerge below the depths of the crashing waves as well.

I plan on being very picky about the lore I put in the game, and am having the most knowledgable of the fan base that I know double and triple check every word I put in the game for continuity. I want to enrich the story that has already been beautifully laid out in the original series with new information, filling in blanks logically and creating new information that gets its roots in the history already available.

If you would like to help play test, let me know, I am trying to rough in everything by the end of the month, then it will come to the story insertion and play testing before it is released.

Also, if you want, be sure to visit my DD forum and post your name on the list to see if Koji Endo might donate a track to the cause to make the game even more KF feeling.

Again, thanks for your posts, and keep em coming.

[Holy_Diver]

I plan on creating a thread about lore... but I also want to stress that I think trying to understand the lore in any concrete fashion is probably a bad idea. I don't think it hurts to even get it wrong, because I think it's more about atmosphere first... which is what Fromsoftware seems to like to do -- just try to make much sense out of the minimalist Armored Core story arcs (if you can even call them that)

But on the other hand, I also want to stress, that what I've picked up from the Agetec games really doesn't jibe with Fromsoftware games. And it's understandable that Agetec would throw up it's hands translating this stuff / not be 100% faithful. So anyway there is always the question, of which version of KF are you trying to be faithful to? The original, or second hand versions... and I can't even answer that question for you because, obviously the Japanese versions are further removed from a western audience, and no complete accounting of the Japanese games has been done afaik. Though John seems to have begun with KF1, but I haven't asked him how faithful his translation is or double checked his work.

I won't say more than this... but I don't think the mythology of KF is as original as people give it credit for. It is actually I think more or less just a very asian mythological worldview filtered thru a western lens (courtesy of, well asians)

For instance if you've ever scratched your head about "Guyra", "Seath", the Moonlight and Dark Slayer, meditate for a second over the Taijitu and it's symbolism to the Tao (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taijitu)

[dmpdesign]

Well I am definately referring to the translation that Ascii did for KF 2 and 3...after playing through the translated version of KF1 that John made, it is clear to me From did a pretty poor job keeping things consistent in even a very short, and relatively undeveloped story.

I am definitely going to have to disagree with the idea that KF lore isnt very good though. While it may be true that they got alot of ideas from other stories (most do) and that they only scratched the surface of much of the characters and background that they included, the games in my opinion offer a massive story world to build from.

[Holy_Diver]

I never said it was bad (the lore or whatever) ...I like it just the way it is. Though IV kinda overreached I think, but it's no huge deal. I'm pretty sure IV was a prequel, but I can't really remember...

I haven't played IV's NA release. And I was a practically a newborn babe when I played II and III by ASCII was it? I really don't know much about the English handling. I can just remember the two game covers. Btw, I have a feeling Agetec (is it) is proclaiming KF dead, has more to do with Sega picking up AC than Fromsoftware specifically. From' has announced no future plans for KF, but no way will that remain the case, and From' continues to release mobile and other versions of KF etcetera along with PSN releases of all the games. I think DS shows they're working on it, but want it to be good. No way is DS a "spiritual successor" to KF... it just plays/feels too different. (If they were smart they'd do a KF2 remake. That couldn't be too hard.)

Completely offtopic, but I've heard From' is an extremely straight-laced company. I don't really understand a lot of their non-AC/KF related series. They seem to be outsourced, or grasping for something that just never cuts mustard. I think they're trying to reach a mainstream audience, but to me their attempts just seem awkward. The only other series they've had I liked is Tenchu, but I only liked the first game very much, which was not done by any of the companies that handled subsequent Tenchus (including Fromsoftware)

Sorry to just keep touching on stuff, but this is my thread, and I'll jabber if I want to~

[dmpdesign]

Tenchu 1 and 3 were the only ones I cared for, and I agree that activision (the company who made those two) did a much better job than the sega/from software team that did some of the others.

[Holy_Diver]

Tenchu 1 and 3 were the only ones I cared for, and I agree that activision (the company who made those two) did a much better job than the sega/from software team that did some of the others.

I think Sony "Music Entertainment" was responsible for the first. Activision doesn't produce original Japanese titles. They just localize them for foreign markets. Oh hell... that reminds me. There were some Japanese only expansions for the first Tenchu. I might have to look into that?? I wonder if they are on the PSN>>

[Holy_Diver]

Sorry to be a bother...

But I've never had an easy time reading phpbb based forums. To further confound matters the "posts since your last visit" button is always empty even though there are clearly new posts.

Is there an easy way at least to see the newest posts in a list? Or some odd tips? I'd probably remember some techniques but it's been a while since I've hung around one. I just don't have time to scan individual boards within the forum looking for tidbits of new info just on a lark