Other Map Creator use with SoM

[dmpdesign]

I have a couple spots in DD that are done with map pieces that are larger than 1x1 map tile size. ‎  (granted they dont look all that great but it gets the job done).

All SOM does is load the file with the center of your map piece at 0,0,0 coordinates.

If you create a map tile that is 6 meters long by 6 meters wide it simply covers what would normally take 9 map pieces.

I did this for a tower because I was having a complete nightmare of a time trying to create the 9 different map pieces i needed.

Below is an illustration of what I mean:

[Holy_Diver]

So you discovered like an unused feature??? What does this look like in the "Piece Setup" window?

33x33 is almost doable. Your world would not have to be square I suppose.

[Holy_Diver]

This kinda makes me wonder about making a game that basically reloads SOM every time you go to a new map, so each game is 1map out of the 64, so you can devote all pieces to a single map. I don't think it would be that tough to glue together. I think I have all the tech I would need to do it seamlessly.

Edited: So is there any limit then on the size of the geometry in a map piece? I mean can your tower go as high as you want other than that 10m insta-kill thing for collision?

[AsusX2]

So my thought process is'nt all that outlandish after all.;) although i dont know about reloading som each level (wich is a really good idea by the way) I was generally thinking the same thing. as long as it keeps the feel of kings field it should be a good thing. my Question is would we still have the problem of the events happening at the same place or would a map 10x10x10 instead of 100x100 resolve that conflict? This I would be very interested to see. so best of luck on your attempt H.D. I would not have the slightest idea how to do that without help. by the way i've made an item out of the SoM manual, Really. HaHaHaHa i'm just trying to get it to work with SoM. That one is for you DmpDesign. You asked.

[Holy_Diver]

Well I would help someone make a multi-game game (like a multi-disc game) if they had the games all ready to go. The main reason to do this is to get around many hard limitations imposed by SOM. I was just expanding the concept to include one map per game if John ever figured that out or I got around to it.

I think making a game this way would be way more involved than just making a traditional SOM maze-like game. I think Todd wants to do this because of a desire to illegitimately remake the environs of Shadow Gate, where I guess every scene would have it's own feel. But either way, that is a lot more work in the art dept.

Personally I'm more interested in outputting SOM geometry (3D screenshots) which users could then use as a reference to make point perfect patch pieces/objects for trouble areas (SOM really sucks in the transition dept.) ...kinda the same thing, but more practical from where we stand.

Personally I'd also like to see our database keep evolving to be reusable. Where just chopping up someone's wonderland into pieces is completely unusable for anything else. I'd rather all that art time be spent working on things for everyone. Though I suppose a number of confined objects and textures could be salvaged from such an undertaking.

[dmpdesign]

Asus..let me know where you are at with your model making and I will do what I can to direct you to the next step.

Please make sure you read this first:

https://www.swordofmoonlight.com/CustomModel.htm#Object

It should get you in the right direction. ‎  If youre getting stuck...I will gladly help you.

[HwitVlf]

I love your example drawings Todd! What tool(s) do you use to make them? It would take me hours to make something so clear in my photo editor.

I'm not sure if there's a limit on the max XZ size of a map tile, but I've made pieces 5x1 that seem to work properly. One of my water Pieces is 1x3. If there is a limit on the Y size, I would suspect it's the difference between the maximum elevation and the minimum elevation for other map Pieces (AKA very tall)- other than the -10 instant death thing. That can be worked around in most places by setting an invisible Object barrier that prevents the player from touching the 'death' area.

It was just an idea and I haven't done much looking into it, but I believe that the map editor can use at least up to 9999 Pieces. It's the final output map model (mpx file if I remember correctly) that can only have 1000~ Pieces. So, theoretically you could 'auto-carve' a 100x100 grid into 10,000 map Pieces, open and build on them in the map editor, and then auto-stitch them together into 1000 Pieces around 3x3 each for the final 'output' process that builds them into the mpx file. That should avoid the problem of trying to place Objects in 'space' where you can't see the map Piece.

Warp events could be used to link surface areas to large indoor areas which are on separate maps ? that would prevent excessive multi-level complications.

Todd: to prevent chests and other switch events from triggering when the player is on the wrong floor, you can turn the Objects that carry the triggered events on/off depending on where the player is. Since all events are attached to an Object, it should be doable. Just keep them turned off unless the player is on the correct floor. That probably won't work in every situation, but it should work in most cases.

[Holy_Diver]

Ah, I thought that there was an id parameter in every map piece that only went as high as like 1024 (from what I'd gleaned from Todd's words)

So is it then 1000pcs per map? Or 1000pcs per game? Because that is a ton of pieces if it's per map, and it's even good for per game if you get to pick each one from 9999! as you say laid out in the map-editor.

I was under the impression there could only be 1000 or so map pieces in Todd's installer or something would break. If you can have 9999, then why do people try to assign numbers to the pcs to fit them within the built-in pcs' numbers?

[HwitVlf]

I haven't tested enough to make any conclusive claims, but here's what I believe:

Map Pieces with a PRT file numbered over 1024 will show up, can be assembled, and saved (aka recorded in a .MAP file) in the map editor.

However, the editor will crash when you try to 'output' (aka convert the .MAP file to an .MPX file) a map with a PRT # over 1024.
MPX files are what SoM actually renders in-game maps from. An MPX file contains a copy of the MSM and MHM files (aka the mesh and collision shape) for every Piece used on the associated map and they can only contain 1000~ distinct map Piece models. However, each of those 1000~ map Piece models can be 3x3 in size.

Each map has its own distinct MPX file (with the map Pieces embedded in it) so you should be able to use up to 1024 unique Pieces on each map. For example, using the 'multi-install' setup, you could open a project in a SoM install that has 1024 custom made 'water-world' map Pieces and use all of them to build Map #1 and save/output Map#1. Then, open the same project in a different install with 1024 custom made 'jungle-world' map Pieces. Use the jungle Pieces to build map #2 and save/output map #2- leaving the MPX file for map #1 unchanged. You should then be able to play through both maps (which contain a total of 2048 different Pieces) without trouble in the final game.

If you made a custom program to convert MAP files to MPX files that didn't automatically crash if the Piece's PRT file was numbered above 1024, I think you could have thousands of map pieces available in the editor as long as you didn't use more than 1024 on any one map.

[Holy_Diver]

That's really weird, but definitely something we can use to our advantage one day (the only real limitation is what the exe will/won't do/can't be coaxed to do)

Could you be clear on this line...

However, the editor will crash when you try to 'output' (aka convert the .MAP file to an .MPX file) a map with a PRT # over 1024.

Basically how I read this is all Map files have a PRT number (either embedded in them, or in the file name??)

In order for all map pieces to be displayed distinctly in the editor they must all have different PRT numbers (true or false?)

And finally are you saying if you put a map piece with a PRT over 1024 in your map, and push the build button, the editor will crash/not do the build output?


whether that is the scenario or not, there are probably a number of different ways to approach this. Right now I'd prefer to focus on hacking the exe over the individual tools. It's just too much to think about on my plate to be thinking in terms of all those different process (applications) at once. I wish you would at least put some of the tools thru that Resedit resource editing program if you haven't already. There is a lot of translating you have missed in there (in my version of your translation at least)

If we knew how to build ourselves it would probably be possible to do our own thing when hitting the build button. But I suspect the "map optimization" and "calculate lighting" goes on between the save and the build step, which seems like it might be a little complicated. On the other hand you could always turn that off... especially if you did your own lighting somehow or forgo lamps.