(2009-09-15, 03:37 AM)Holy Diver link Wrote:I think kilroyfx as described is more of a hacker and amateur game developer. Where as hacking for me goes against everything I normally do, and I would describe myself as a bleeding edge software engineer, and professional artist.
Too heavy. Your being defensive, don't worry so much about what people think of you. I'm just stating my opinion, I thought KF was all about the fun and enjoyment, you were making some direct comparison of your skills vs my skills before I ever made a POST on this forum....I thought you were aggressive from the start - and some would think maybe even bullying. It's ok if your a bully. I'm just wondering when your going to make a game or something...instead of spending all your time bullying the forums. :)
I think the term 'abrasive' is probably the best way to describe some of the posts that get people all worked up and offensive/defensive.
Now..please don't take this as an attack, but I just want to give some examples of where part of the break down in communications go.
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As stated in the past, many people respond more openly to a more humble way of presenting ideas and opinions that may not coincide with their own. I don't think its necessarily what youre asking of folks, in this case John, but how youre asking it.
For example, remember when you started working on DOM09 and basically just stated something to the effect of wanting more musical tracks from Tom? I am not going to sift through the posts to find it, but from what I recall, the post basically just assumed Tom would be onboard to revamp his game, provide you with new music tracks and npc/gear names etc.
A humbler person would likely have said something to the effect of "DOM is a great project, one that I want to expand. I have a couple of awesome maps planned for an expanded version of the game, and maybe if I am lucky, Tom will have a couple tracks I could add to the game to finish up these maps in the same theme. Tom, do you have any leftover tracks I can use, and or would it be difficult to churn out a couple more quick toons to put into these maps?"
Instead of the above, I do remember a nearly exact quote that DOM was pretty much slapped together half assed and didn't take any serious time. No one in there right mind is going to respond kindly to that...that is criticism any way you slice it.
..........fast forward 6 months, and the same thing is happening with the SOM translation.
You have a good idea, you want to clarify some possibly ambiguous words within the SOM translation to help people out in the long run...but instead of saying "There may be some terms worth rewording or clarifying within the original SOM translation. John, you have done a fantastic job with translating this in the first place, would you be interested in assisting me in the project to help clean up some ambiguous terms? If so, we can probably get a list going and get everyone's opinion on what some of the terms in question should be."
Instead, we get something more along the lines of "I really hate non-computer terminology. I don't like the term counter or leaf, why did you pick that? You need to change these to X and Y so everyone can understand it."
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Anyways, thats all I have to say about it. I think you mean well enough, and I think you have the betterment of SOM as the right goal in your mind, I just think you really approach other people with your ideas in a very abrasive manner that causes people to be quickly turned off the whole idea, even if it was a good one.
I just need the one file (som_db.exe) ...don't worry, I will find my own copy somewhere surely without downloading another installer. Just asking in case anyone could quickly attach it to a post. Btw, I just got the internationalization working, (from shift-jis -> utf8 -> utf16le) so the sooner the better if anyone can help out with these two requests. In the meantime I gotta get out before dark.
PS: I happen to prefer abrasive people and feel strongly that humility is a form of deception and self debasement. At the end of the day a good person is a good person, and you're the shittier if you can't accept people as they are. It's extremely arrogant to think you know what's best for everyone. That's a purely acculturated thing, and if you went out around the world you'd be surprised how these things differ within communities. The internet is the ultimate challenge in civility seeing as we're all coming from around the world and the onus is on you to be thoughtful and accepting of all people whether they share your disposition/predilections or not.
EDITED: That is all hypothetical of course (please don't take personal offense) but I see where this is going and I've seen it before (as you can imagine) and obviously I feel strongly about this sort of thing.
PS: When people start talking about this sort of waste of space shit my eyes glaze over. So let's not. Or I will just have to remake this thread until we can all get the point. Let's no more detours please. I don't care if your feelings are hurt. Send me a PM. Man up
(2009-10-29, 09:24 PM)dmpdesign link Wrote: As stated in the past, many people respond more openly to a more humble way of presenting ideas and opinions that may not coincide with their own.? I don't think its necessarily what youre asking of folks, in this case John, but how youre asking it.
For example, remember when you started working on DOM09 and basically just stated something to the effect of wanting more musical tracks from Tom?? I am not going to sift through the posts to find it, but from what I recall, the post basically just assumed Tom would be onboard to revamp his game, provide you with new music tracks and npc/gear names etc.
A humbler person would likely have said something to the effect of "DOM is a great project, one that I want to expand.? I have a couple of awesome maps planned for an expanded version of the game, and maybe if I am lucky, Tom will have a couple tracks I could add to the game to finish up these maps in the same theme.? ?Tom, do you have any leftover tracks I can use, and or would it be difficult to churn out a couple more quick toons to put into these maps?"
Instead of the above, I do remember a nearly exact quote that DOM was pretty much slapped together half assed and didn't take any serious time.? No one in there right mind is going to respond kindly to that...that is criticism any way you slice it.
..........fast forward 6 months, and the same thing is happening with the SOM translation.
You have a good idea, you want to clarify some possibly ambiguous words within the SOM translation to help people out in the long run...but instead of saying "There may be some terms worth rewording or clarifying within the original SOM translation.? John, you have done a fantastic job with translating this in the first place, would you be interested in assisting me in the project to help clean up some ambiguous terms?? If so, we can probably get a list going and get everyone's opinion on what some of the terms in question should be."
Instead, we get something more along the lines of "I really hate non-computer terminology.? I don't like the term counter or leaf, why did you pick that?? You need to change these to X and Y so everyone can understand it."
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Anyways, thats all I have to say about it.? I think you mean well enough, and I think you have the betterment of SOM as the right goal in your mind, I just think you really approach other people with your ideas in a very abrasive manner that causes people to be quickly turned off the whole idea, even if it was a good one.
That's your perception isn't it. Tom could've kept DOM to his chest. But he did the right thing. I asked him to let it go opensource. Opensource means anyone whether you like them or not can have at it. I didn't ask him to like me at all. I disagreed with his stance on his music because I didn't think it was forum appropriate to be airing out projects with no implications towards SOM whatsoever. I don't discuss things in forums like they're my own personal social hangout. At least not without the flimsiest of premises. But I respect Tom either way, it just confused me. Now let's have no more of this. I really don't read stuff when people start boohooing. I want SOM to be A) more usable. B) self-documenting. C) accessible to everyone. D) unified in our mission as a community. None of that is bad. But in your infinite wisdom you choose to denounce the sentiment because you don't like something about me. That's not my problem, that is yours (ie. I am not here to manipulate or take advantage of anyone or be liked)
I can't seem to find any way to get the original Japanese exe files without doing an install, which I worry might goof up my system.
I guess I could really use some help or advice from someone who's confident about what I should do. I wouldn't mind having a Japanese install. I guess I should look into John's multikit business
(2009-10-29, 08:59 PM)kilroyfx link Wrote: [quote author=Holy Diver link=topic=144.msg1380#msg1380 date=1252982244]
I think kilroyfx as described is more of a hacker and amateur game developer. Where as hacking for me goes against everything I normally do, and I would describe myself as a bleeding edge software engineer, and professional artist.
Too heavy.? Your being defensive, don't worry so much about what people think of you. I'm just stating my opinion, I thought KF was all about the fun and enjoyment, you were making some direct comparison of your skills vs my skills before I ever made a POST on this forum....I thought you were aggressive from the start - and some would think maybe even bullying. It's ok if your a bully. I'm just wondering when your going to make a game or something...instead of spending all your time bullying the forums. :)
[/quote]
Well congrats, you totally misread my words then. Don't project your own insecurities onto people who don't even know you. We're all just trying to express ourselves.
PS: You weren't a person then, you were Todd's imaginary friend
PPS: No excuses, no regrets, no apologies. Don't waste your time on me. I only mean business.
I'm a likable/admirable person if you can get over yourself.
Here is a screenshot of SOM working with gettext...
All that is needed is to make a file that looks like this:
#JDO: Level
msgid "???"
msgstr "Level"
#JDO:
msgid "???????"
msgstr "Main Menu"
It has to be a utf-8 text file. Which is kind of a pain, but there are text editors under Windows that can do this. But Windows apps like Notepad and Wordpad save in Microsoft's funky version of UTF-16LE. You run that file thru msgfmt, however unfortunately the msgfmt I found at https://gettext.sourceforge.net/ crashes saying "iconv failure" when using utf-8 in the msgid fields (I think) ...it's possible I just didn't set it up right. But it worked before I started adding the Japanese. Fortunately when I copied the files over to my Linux dev server they went thru fine and worked. It won't matter in the long run because I will set a section up on the website that lets people translate games online and download the translation file. I had a system like that setup at digitaldevildb.com so users could translate the website. It's broken since Todd let me move the website to this webhost however. Might be gettext is not supported on this server, but the commands seem to work, so I'm guessing I lost some hacks I made to the Wordpress source code.
The only possible limitation here is since SOM natively uses Shift_JIS, it may be game makers would be limited to English or Japanese when making their game. But anything can appear in the translation files. So you could just stick in your SOM message box [#00001] then have a script file that translates [#00001] into a Korean script. For your games however with this method they can be translated into any language and without editing the exe file. You can thank me later
(2009-10-29, 11:42 PM)HwitVlf link Wrote: Holy, I don't care to dwell on it because I have dealt with enough people like you to know how resistant to common sense they are. It's not just that you are abrasive and should be 'faking' humility; it's that you try to strip other people of their deserved value, while insisting on the value of your own views. And yet, your views are often wrong. You are feeling the elephant's trunk and insisting the elephant is like a snake while completely missing the rest of the elephant. If you truly 'don't care if feelings are hurt', I do not respect you and I do not care to deal with people I do not respect. Your attitude will (and I'm sure has) cut you off from human kind and hindered you in any real discovery of truth. You can (and I imagine will) ignore what I say here but the nice thing about truth: it can be ignored, but it can not be changed. It justifies and enforces itself.
Now you're just being a faggy drama queen. Why not just let others be who they are... so we can get shit done instead^ I feel the same way about you're behavior here, so what's the point? That doesn't mean I feel the same way about you. I'm going to piss you off that's a given. Whether you're so self absorbed you can't get over it is entirely up to you.
I'm glad you Todd and John are all from the same scene and feel one another. But "the truth" is you're just being bigoted. I like you, you don't like me. Who is the better person again? I'm not stripping you of any deserved value. If you want to strip for us, that is your own prerogative.
I treat you as an equal who deserves respect, because you're my peer. In my opinion this sort of display is completely inappropriate. But I respond to your grievances because I respect you as an individual, which means recognizing what is right for me isn't necessarily right for you.
