Some Questions About SoM?

[GeminiContractor]

Hi, I'm pretty new(brand new actually) to the forum, and I'm not sure where I would ask this, or if it's been answered elsewhere already.
If there is a better place to post this, I'd appreciate being informed of where.
So, with no further ado, here are my questions:

1. Is the Sword of Moonlight: King's Field Making Tool free?

2. Is the SoM: KFMT, which is available for download here, legal?

3. Can you release games made with either SoM royalty-free?

4. Can you charge for the games you release that are made with either SoM?

5. How flexible is SoM(can you add features through C++, is there/it an SDK etc.)?

Thanks.

[Madison Lastrega]

Hello and ‎  let me be the first to welcome you to the forum for SoM... ‎  I am ‎  Madison Lastrega, I think you will find this forum a lot of fun and helpful if you wish to start a SoM project....... ‎ 

We are a close knit group for the most part.... Some of us including myself disapear for a spell but when were on.... Were on, so to speak.

Now the Questions ‎  ‎  1 Som is a japanese abandonware game maker from 1999 copywrite 2000.... Translated by the brilliant John Osborne ‎  a little over 5 years ago... it is out of print, but still avaiable on ebay from time to time.... So yeah sorta free... There is a copy on the home of SoM swordofmoonlight.com ‎  And translation patch.

2 ‎  Well Legal for abandonware I guess no one here has ever gotten a cease and disist if that answers your question

3 If you use your own assest ( models ect)and don't violate anyone elses copywrites, then Yes.

4. Thats a touchy subject for many years and still in debate by some , but for myself and a few others I would no.... A freeware title I don't think From would lose any sleep over and so far with over 5 complete SoM titles out there no one has had problems for making a freeware game with SoM.... Charger at your risk I say.

5 SoM has come along way thatks to a few clever folks , namly JDO and Holy Diver.... But the program is the SDK, it's a simple 1st person RPG maker :) ‎  that is hily customizable.......

and lastly Download the SoM demo Rathmore by Verdite, and see what you can do with some of holy divers extensions........ ‎  Good luck and hope to see you, others can clarify things better............................ML

[GeminiContractor]

Hello and ‎  let me be the first to welcome you to the forum for SoM... ‎  I am ‎  Madison Lastrega, I think you will find this forum a lot of fun and helpful if you wish to start a SoM project....... ‎ 

We are a close knit group for the most part.... Some of us including myself disapear for a spell but when were on.... Were on, so to speak.

Now the Questions ‎  ‎  1 Som is a japanese abandonware game maker from 1999 copywrite 2000.... Translated by the brilliant John Osborne ‎  a little over 5 years ago... it is out of print, but still avaiable on ebay from time to time.... So yeah sorta free... There is a copy on the home of SoM swordofmoonlight.com ‎  And translation patch.

2 ‎  Well Legal for abandonware I guess no one here has ever gotten a cease and disist if that answers your question

3 If you use your own assest ( models ect)and don't violate anyone elses copywrites, then Yes.

4. Thats a touchy subject for many years and still in debate by some , but for myself and a few others I would no.... A freeware title I don't think From would lose any sleep over and so far with over 5 complete SoM titles out there no one has had problems for making a freeware game with SoM.... Charger at your risk I say.

5 SoM has come along way thatks to a few clever folks , namly JDO and Holy Diver.... But the program is the SDK, it's a simple 1st person RPG maker :) ‎  that is hily customizable.......

and lastly Download the SoM demo Rathmore by Verdite, and see what you can do with some of holy divers extensions........ ‎  Good luck and hope to see you, others can clarify things better............................ML

Thanks for the welcome and information.

I was just wondering if what this website(link below) said was still true and hoping for clarification on its legality(whether you have to search all over the web for it, or just download it from here, but from what you say, I'm assuming it's in a gray area, perhaps either way)

https://en.\<span> site blocked, contact your administrator/

Also, I probably won't be here too often(I might even be gone for years), as I'm a very flaky person unfortunately.

Anyway, is there a full list of the games released that were made using SoM?
Lastly, is there anyway to play these games with a controller(Xbox 360) and controller mapping software?
Because, it would seem that the native controller support is a bit lacking and interferes with the controller software.

[Holy_Diver]

1. Is the Sword of Moonlight: King's Field Making Tool free?

Most likely yes. What it will become will be 99% public domain. But if you are a Japanese resident of Japan you really should purchase a copy from From Software by emailing them. If you are about to release a game that is larger than a demo you should make an effort to buy a copy just to be cool, but that isn't so easy to do. So you'll be forgiven if you don't. Originally you need a disc to build the final standalone game. It would cost you between 80$ and 120$. Now they are more or less collectors items. But that could change.

2. Is the SoM: KFMT, which is available for download here, legal?

No. The files online are not strictly legal. They are like games being posted online. But From Software has not complained. Plus its reasonable to assume that you can use a free version from somewhere up until you build your final game, since that's the only time where disc protection schemes come into play.

3. Can you release games made with either SoM royalty-free?

Yes. Although if you are serious. You'll be using Ex to extend SOM and very likely artwork developed by others. So the honorable thing to do would be to donate a portion of any earnings back. Since the SOM way is ideally to use something like 95% public domain resources. If not 100%.

4. Can you charge for the games you release that are made with either SoM?

People will probably say different things about this. But the answer IS yes.

5. How flexible is SoM(can you add features through C++, is there/it an SDK etc.)?

Yes and no. There is lots of public domain code for SOM. But the goal is not for it to be a general purpose code base. But instead an intentionally inflexible way to make games that are guaranteed to be good games. Instead of do anything you can imagine. The ethos is you'll be more creative if you work within set limitations. This stems from SOM's origin as non extensible game making software.

EDITED: You can configure 100s of extensions. And now you can program the values of the extensions with a calculator like purely functional programming language unique to SOM. The syntax is like grade school math class. Any kind of math can be carried out.

[Madison Lastrega]

See, I told ya others could elaborate better :-) ‎  ‎  thanks Holy Diver :-) ‎  ‎  ‎  ‎  ‎  ...........ML ‎ 

[Holy_Diver]

Anyway, is there a full list of the games released that were made using SoM?
Lastly, is there anyway to play these games with a controller(Xbox 360) and controller mapping software?
Because, it would seem that the native controller support is a bit lacking and interferes with the controller software.

There are games. But SOM is still in a kind of prehistory phase. We aim to support everything. But work can only proceed as fast as it can. Anyone can involve themselves.

If the 360 controller works with the DirectInput APIs then yes. If it requires XInput, that will come, but its not currently implemented. I'd like to support the Dualshock 3 natively. You have analog and mouse extensions. You just have to understand that SOM is a DIY platform. If that's not how you see yourself, then its probably an ill fit for what you want to do. That said. There's no telling. I can envision it becoming the premier way that good games get made.

It's also limited to Windows PCs until a full featured emulator (read: new SOM game player) is completed.

[Holy_Diver]

PS: Our poster may be a flake. But these are good questions. You should Sticky this somewhere. I may add them to my FAQ if they are not answered there already.

[GeminiContractor]

[quote author=GeminiContractor link=topic=706.msg9365#msg9365 date=1373334542]1. Is the Sword of Moonlight: King's Field Making Tool free?

Most likely yes. What it will become will be 99% public domain. But if you are a Japanese resident of Japan you really should purchase a copy from From Software by emailing them. If you are about to release a game that is larger than a demo you should make an effort to buy a copy just to be cool, but that isn't so easy to do. So you'll be forgiven if you don't. Originally you need a disc to build the final standalone game. It would cost you between 80$ and 120$. Now they are more or less collectors items. But that could change.[/quote]

I see.
Unfortunately, I don't live in Japan, nor am I Japanese. :[

2. Is the SoM: KFMT, which is available for download here, legal?

No. The files online are not strictly legal. They are like games being posted online. But From Software has not complained. Plus its reasonable to assume that you can use a free version from somewhere up until you build your final game, since that's the only time where disc protection schemes come into play.

Disc protection schemes?

3. Can you release games made with either SoM royalty-free?

Yes. Although if you are serious. You'll be using Ex to extend SOM and very likely artwork developed by others. So the honorable thing to do would be to donate a portion of any earnings back. Since the SOM way is ideally to use something like 95% public domain resources. If not 100%.

If I were to release a game(that costs money), I probably wouldn't use any assets(art, music, sound, etc.) that are not created by me, but I understand.
Also, what is "Ex"?

4. Can you charge for the games you release that are made with either SoM?

People will probably say different things about this. But the answer IS yes.

I see...I assume this doesn't hold true for the free version though, right?

5. How flexible is SoM(can you add features through C++, is there/it an SDK etc.)?

Yes and no. There is lots of public domain code for SOM. But the goal is not for it to be a general purpose code base. But instead an intentionally inflexible way to make games that are guaranteed to be good games. Instead of do anything you can imagine. The ethos is you'll be more creative if you work within set limitations. This stems from SOM's origin as non extensible game making software.

EDITED: You can configure 100s of extensions. And now you can program the values of the extensions with a calculator like purely functional programming language unique to SOM. The syntax is like grade school math class. Any kind of math can be carried out.

Okay.
I was just asking because I wanted to know if you would be able to add things such as jumping, ledge grabbing, third-person perspective, etc.

[quote author=GeminiContractor link=topic=706.msg9367#msg9367 date=1373360499]Anyway, is there a full list of the games released that were made using SoM?
Lastly, is there anyway to play these games with a controller(Xbox 360) and controller mapping software?
Because, it would seem that the native controller support is a bit lacking and interferes with the controller software.

There are games. But SOM is still in a kind of prehistory phase. We aim to support everything. But work can only proceed as fast as it can. Anyone can involve themselves.[/quote]

By "prehistory", do you mean, in development?
If not, could you explain further?

If the 360 controller works with the DirectInput APIs then yes. If it requires XInput, that will come, but its not currently implemented. I'd like to support the Dualshock 3 natively. You have analog and mouse extensions. You just have to understand that SOM is a DIY platform. If that's not how you see yourself, then its probably an ill fit for what you want to do. That said. There's no telling. I can envision it becoming the premier way that good games get made.

It's also limited to Windows PCs until a full featured emulator (read: new SOM game player) is completed.

I was actually asking about using a controller on the games that are currently released, not whether or not the games that I might make could/would have controller support.
As, I have tried playing one of the games using Xpadder and a controller, but I found that the controller's buttons are affected by the game's native controller support.

Anyway, thanks for the information. ‎ 

[Holy_Diver]

Unfortunately, I don't live in Japan, nor am I Japanese. :[

Join the club. But if you go to the trouble to make a game, its comparatively little trouble to at least try to own a copy of SOM.

Disc protection schemes?

Like DRM.

If I were to release a game(that costs money), I probably wouldn't use any assets(art, music, sound, etc.) that are not created by me, but I understand.
Also, what is "Ex"?

That's impractical for most people. You can sell your game for money either way. You make the game and the original content. That's not worth nothing. Ex makes SOM work. It will have a system to help players support artists directly at some point. Besides its the code itself that is 50 to 90% of the game. Are you going to make that yourself too? Everyone pitches in.

I see...I assume this doesn't hold true for the free version though, right?

There is no free version.

I was just asking because I wanted to know if you would be able to add things such as jumping, ledge grabbing, third-person perspective, etc.

That is being added already. In fact technically jumping and ledge grabbing work already. But the planned feature set is still incomplete. Whether or not you yourself would be able to add this, most likely not. But it's being added for you either way.

SOM is for first person enthusiasts first and foremost. But there will be third person too. Players can have it anyway they choose. It's an open platform. You relinquish all control to the players. And players must be able to take your game apart and tinker with it. While I encourage you to sell your games, I don't encourage you to not share your artwork. I think you'll run into problems down the road that way.

It's an opensource platform. Not just the code. But the whole game.

EDITED: Thing about third person is you're going to have a lot of work cut out for you to make a 3D avatar work. SOM is all about quality. So you have to work within the framework it presents you. The whole idea is to achieve unrivaled quality everyone must work together.

By "prehistory", do you mean, in development? If not, could you explain further?

I meant you'd be an early adopter at this stage.

I was actually asking about using a controller on the games that are currently released, not whether or not the games that I might make could/would have controller support.
As, I have tried playing one of the games using Xpadder and a controller, but I found that the controller's buttons are affected by the game's native controller support.

If you are serious about playing with some of the older games. You'd be wise to first add Ex to them, or you will have a miserable time, and not really see what SOM is truly capable of. It's a professional platform. These older games, their authors have not showed enough pride to bring them into the modern day.

If you are willing to put up with those shoddy games and still ask questions about SOM I assume you are down with a DIY platform regardless of deficiencies.