Don't know if you've read my messages yet, but I figured out a quick and easy way to convert these .bmps to .svg - and though they're not identical (which is pretty much impossible, given the differences between the formats), they look pretty good and can be scaled as big/small as you need with no loss of quality!
I need a way to get them to you, so let me know what'd be best when you can. I'm already done with about 20 of them now, and that was with working distractedly - I estimate that I'll be able to finish the FDAT folder in a few days, tops. The other folder, RTIM, would take just a few more days than that, I imagine.
So get back to me ASAP, I can get these back to you, and hopefully they're up to snuff for the project!
*ill-fated is the wind that does not blow a single mind*
I know what you mean. I looked at them yesterday, and it's quite a daunting challenge. I know it will take a lot of creativity/artistic license in most cases. I had the idea that this would be for the best, but I haven't given it a whole lot of thought to be honest
But don't worry about getting the files to me/us (as long as they are safe.) I am aiming for the year 2020 to finish. So we have a lot of time! And believe me, it's going to take all of that time.
If you don't mind using this thread/topic to continue to discuss this (it's a little off-topic) then please render some of the SVG's (your favorites) and attach/post them, so everyone can see.
ASAP I want to give you a project to use, if possible, so you can see your work in SOM and in the game. And continue to refine it that way. I will develop some special tools for generating "textures" from your SVG files. Maybe once the textures get small (this is called Mipmapping) they can use the originals, or maybe not, we will see. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mipmap
P.S. My idea is to not make the characters look like cartoons, or realistic, but to have them appear more like sculptures, or abstract artworks. They are representations of an idea, but they are not a thing in themself. It is not the form itself that is important, but the feeling/thoughts it evokes. Kind of like puppets.
All good. I'll take my time then! Just let me know whenever you're able to get that project ready, that sounds like it could be really helpful for this!
But now I'm about to sleep, so I'll post up some SVGs once I get up tomorrow!
*ill-fated is the wind that does not blow a single mind*
2018-09-06, 01:19 AM (This post was last modified: 2018-09-06, 01:45 AM by vongrimmsy0.)
OK! So here's a few of the SVG texture files I've converted from bmp.
Nothing too extravagant, but they can be resized indefinitely and not lose image quality. I can also grab each individual color of these pictures, and rearrange them like puzzle pieces, which is pretty neat. Another bonus, is that Illustrator's image tracing tool allows me to preserve the 16 colors used to make each one with just a few clicks - and for the majority, it's been as simple as load, trace, resize (since image tracing causes a slight change in size for whatever reason), and save. Most of them haven't required much extra attention, and are easily identifiable as their original texture.
One thing I have noticed however, is that none of these use true black so far - instead there are just really deep shades of whatever color(s) the bmps were mostly comprised of. If that's an issue, let me know asap so I can go back and make changes if necessary! I know you said black was your transparency color, and some of these (the flame ones, for wisps/spells, etc.) seem like they should be transparent. It could also be that the original bmps had some sort of cut-off range that was considered black within their system, assuming the original KF operates in a similar manner as SOM. But that's just a guess/assumption.
Digging through the files, I was also able to apply some monster textures to the redrawn vector minis I've been working on - the baby kraken now looks like it's directly from the game, I'm pretty psyched.
I'll post those up when they're done, though! Let me know how the SVGs look, and I can easily make adjustments to any that need it!
EDIT: Hmm, I guess I didn't think of that - seems like SVG isn't a forum-friendly file type. I'll see if I can convert these to something more common without losing quality...
EDIT2: This should suffice for now - I took a screenshot of the images side-by-side in Illustrator - on the left are SVGs, the right are bmps. The main advantage of the latter (being a raster/pizel image), is the ability to dither and make the illusion of blending/having more colors than there actually are. But as we know, resizing raster images destroys alot of the data in the image and makes them look like crap - SVGs don't have this problem, but can't effectively dither (outside of gradients). Looking at these now, I see I missed a few 'twinkles' on that spell effect, will have to fix that~
*ill-fated is the wind that does not blow a single mind*
Well, an SVG can be as detailed as a bitmap. It just needs more effort put into it! Consider how much time their environment artists might have put into these pieces, and consider doing the same, if not double for each. (We are fans after all!)
But, if you can make these very fast, then it might be good to do them all quickly, so that an entire game can be played, and then after, go back and redo the whole thing! It might be more work, but at least there will be a complete demonstration. And after we determine how cool this new KF2 is going to be, you can decide how much time/attention you can afford it. If you want to, you can make a "Kickstarter" to make money for yourself, and offer the basic job as an enticement.
Here are my feelings about these. BTW, just post PNG files is fine. Just to share. These look correct for the most part. The stars seem a little blurry perhaps... I don't want gradients in the first batch. The colors are different too. Although they look the same to me. The stars especially have quite different RGB values. (And they are missing the brightest color in the heart of the stars.)
I like the flame.... especially the part on the bottom right that makes it look like stained glass, or a handmade mosaic. It is missing the bright white highlights, and the deep red behind it. That said, think of each one as a painting to hang in a modern fine art gallery, and decide for yourself what looks best. I personally like it when there is an artificial element. Maybe other people will disagree, but I feel that the medium is an opportunity to get outside of the confines of everyday reality. And so I like it that it is not cartoony, nor is it precisely realistic, but is merely suggestive. Imagine that all of your SVG files will be hung on walls in an art exhibit, and consider how they will look outside of the context of the KF2 experience, and consider if they will still be worth looking at or not by themself.
I am not certain that every file appears in the game. So if you don't recognize something from the game, maybe save it for later. And look out for duplicates.
I think that the stone/marble texture is very central to KF2's identity. So I I think that it must be given great care, and should be immediately recognizable as marble/polished rock, and not something amorphous that can be anything else. If necessary, it might help to take the original and smooth it out with a filter, and overlay it onto the SVG so that it has more high frequency elements.
The green cave wall is also very critical. It cannot look like the kraken's skin, or anything else. It needs its own identity. Even if that means painstakingly reproducing it in a giant SVG file. Sculptors chisel away for days on end, so it's not too much to go over an entire file for these major pieces. But in due course, and ultimately it's up to the artist's own judgement. I don't recommend approaching it like a copy machine. Try to figure out what is the soul of the image and pull it out.
P.S. I do not like that flame in the game. It's something I would change in a new edition. It will probably have to move, like flames do in SOM, and I think others do in KF2 also. So if we do a flickering flame, it will need several other versions, or animation frames, but that can wait! Still, on the other hand, if it is the "magician's flame" it might be unnerving to see a flame that is frozen. If we make it a frozen flame, it will have to use an all new particle effect that can make it look like 3D fire. But I like your take here. I like how it is chopped up as if made out of hand carved pieces, and that the pieces are sometimes flat/geometric I like too. I think that this approach will complement the very precise and low-detail polygon geometry.
The polygons are going to look better than any game because of the do_aa extension I've developed for SOM. It may be something that no one has ever discovered/used before. It doesn't use the game's resources, and so works on inexpensive computers. And I've never heard of a game that uses its technique, even though it's perfect for low system requirements, therefor I think people who make games don't know what they are missing. (I've tried to publicize the technique, but no one actually cares, which is not surprising, if you look around and see how bad things are in our world, because of how people are by nature.)
Ha, was just about to post an unrelated message earlier and saw that you posted before it went through.
My original intention was to crank all these out ASAP, so we had something to see in a completed form as you mentioned; but I can certainly put a little more time into the important ones that are seen throughout - such as the marble walls, dirt floors, green caves, etc. I'm still a newb in the vector/SVG game, so I can use these to cut my teeth, as it were. Barring that, and once interest is demonstrated (and I'm almost certain there will be interest, once this all comes to fruition), some other good-hearted (and more experienced) fan of KF may be able to pick up where I left off!
But yeah, I'll keep at it, and try to polish up the important ones - they seem to be bigger files in general as well, so it's pretty obvious which ones are which.
As for duplicates, there seems to be a ton of them in the TIM folder. About these in general - should I just delete them, and move on...? Or save duplicates with all the different names...? I assume the former, but wanted to be sure. And I thought those flames on the light tower moved, maybe slightly, in KF...? Am I remembering wrong..? Because there are certainly enough files like that one, that could be/perhaps were stitched into a simple animation of flickering flames.
And modern game-making, from what I've seen, has become a very impersonal and greedy business of producing the same round of cookie-cutter games, ad nauseum. This is what made the PSX era, and KF, so special to me - people making games back then cared about their projects. They poured heart and soul into them. Not that this doesn't happen now, but the developers that actually care seem to be dwindling, in favor of those wanting to make a quick buck. The world does suck, but it is what it is.
*ill-fated is the wind that does not blow a single mind*
Can anyone provide a list of monsters found in King's Field 1 (the Japanese one)? I never actually beat it, but can remember the following off the top of my head:
I never played this one too much to make it very far, and am certain there are loads more monsters than these... I have already ripped some of their textures previously, and hold out hope that someone has some clear screen shots of them to share as well!
Thanks in advance!
*ill-fated is the wind that does not blow a single mind*
2018-09-06, 02:37 PM (This post was last modified: 2018-09-06, 02:49 PM by Holy_Diver.)
(2018-09-06, 12:38 PM)vongrimmsy0 link Wrote: And modern game-making, from what I've seen, has become a very impersonal and greedy business of producing the same round of cookie-cutter games, ad nauseum. This is what made the PSX era, and KF, so special to me - people making games back then cared about their projects. They poured heart and soul into them. Not that this doesn't happen now, but the developers that actually care seem to be dwindling, in favor of those wanting to make a quick buck. The world does suck, but it is what it is.
I feel the same, and am unimpressed. I am also unimpressed by "independent" games. I think that was a special time when all the might of a corporate company was required to produce a game, but simultaneously the games were limited by the hardware so that the result was inevitably human, and nobody took it too seriously. I think we are a long way away from anyone possessing any form of craft understanding of the medium itself. I feel KF2 is the best example of a 3D story space that we have so far. And right now we should be studying and preserving things like it, since we're unlikely to learn any other way. It is a very complicated medium. Companies do not appreciate this. And artists do not take it seriously. Maybe part of that is they don't know what to do with it (it is very intimidating) but also because there is no money in it for artists. The big companies spend all of their money on things that do not matter to the world of artists, and believe that their audience is too stupid or uninterested in art, which might just be true. ("Indie" games are way out of their league, and there is no academic study, nor understanding or language to describe the medium itself. I find that English often fails to describe aspects of video games like products, because it was never meant to wrestle with such abstract concepts. Abstraction is the true strength of the medium. But instead of embracing it, audiences demand ever more "realism." As if their lives are not real enough. Something new has to rise out from underneath this man-made wasteland we find ourselves in )
Quote:Can anyone provide a list of monsters found in King's Field 1 (the Japanese one)? I never actually beat it, but can remember the following off the top of my head:
SOM's King's Field remake has all of the monsters. Try GameFAQs.
EDITED: Don't worry about the duplicates. The files are just your raw materials. The final textures will be combined together, so that each thing in the game will have its own texture. The level geometry will share textures of course, but this is my problem to worry about. When the time comes I will take your SVGs, and as long as the names match one of the duplicates (ideally the first in Windows Explorer order) it won't be a problem. You can delete them if it makes your life easier. But if you can, maybe make absolutely sure they are identical first.
P.S. I hope you stay with it. I mean, if you were making a little KF themed game before? Isn't it much better to be making KF for real?! You might make a name for yourself as an SVG artist. Edited: Just so you understand, I think that the textures will be very large in the final version, when these are used. So instead of 256, they may be 1024 instead, in order to create a vision of an unpixelated experience. I think this will compensate for how the PlayStation doesn't do any filtering. That makes it seem really bold. So we have to find an alternative.
Good news: I figured out a way to convert the bmps to SVGs with them being near-identical in appearance. We're talking completely resizable vector textures, that look just like their bmp counterparts, albeit smoother! Huzzah!
Bad news: I'm going to have to go back and re-do all the ones I'd already finished. Sucks, but I'd rather have them all done with this new method, which will actually save me the trouble of redrawing many of them in the long run.
It was as simple as upscaling the bmps before I ran them through Illustrator (and I'm honestly kicking myself for not thinking of this in the first place ). After I convert them to vectors, I just scale them back down to their original sizes, and they're good to go!
Other than that, I figured out a similar method of ripping graphics from screen shots that makes them look pretty damn good! Have been playing around with this idea in Shadow Tower for the last few days, and will post the results - along with the updated SVGs - soonish, maybe in a day or so!
*ill-fated is the wind that does not blow a single mind*
I'll see if I can convert these to something more common without losing quality... 
)